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Post by amplify26 on Feb 15, 2019 20:39:43 GMT -5
Previously, I made a thread about what unpopular opinions you had of Endurance contestants; now, I was thinking for the series as a whole. For me (for now): Drop Out (E4) was quite overrated as a challenge. I appreciated Erika outlasting all of the guys and being a badass, but the challenge was nothing special. |
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Post by amplify26 on Feb 15, 2019 21:06:16 GMT -5
Drop Out (E4) was quite overrated as a challenge. but the challenge was nothing special. I'm seriously so impressed. That's like my staple challenge when I think about Endurance!! xD I'm planning to rewatch E4 soon, so that may change, but I never had the impression that it was the "greatest" challenge. Its #1 placing on the "Top Ten Games" special wasn't really deserved to me. That said, your opinion piques me! |
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Post by carsonvega on Feb 16, 2019 13:41:27 GMT -5
Drop Out (E4) was quite overrated as a challenge. I appreciated Erika outlasting all of the guys and being a badass, but the challenge was nothing special. Overrated in terms of concept/design and setup by the producers? I could grant you that. Compared to many other missions (E1 Tilt, E2 Face to Face, E3 Ring of Fire, E4 Spin Fly to name a few of the best), it didn't look nearly as exciting. Also, I disliked the fact that there was no adjustment for height (poor Michael from Orange Team was pretty much never going to win Drop Out). Finally, I prefer missions in which both members of a team have to work together, and Drop Out clearly didn't have that. But in terms of pretty much everything else? It was fantastic! It required a lot of effort from the players, especially those who stuck around until the end. It had an example of what can happen when you let your guard down for even a brief moment (Isaac falling in, among others). Even though the players on each team didn't work together, they gave a lot of encouragement to each other. It featured players bringing in things about themselves from outside the game (Erika's surfing background, even up to the colors of the surfboards she owned!) It had a pretty majorly unexpected result - I don't think anyone would have picked a girl to win that mission, even Erika, who had performed decently up to that point but hadn't won anything outright. Alex & Cealey deserved to win Endurance: High Sierras more than Dakota & Kelsey. I agree with this halfway, actually. I didn't much care for the way Kelsey played the game at times; she seemed to get whiny/teary (or worse) quite a bit when things didn't go exactly her way (when she wasn't immediately selected to get to skip the RTS, when the partner selection mission Hanging Around turned out to be tough, when Purple Team wasn't given more love by the eliminated teams before All Tied Up, when she couldn't handle the slingshot properly in Slingshot Alley, when the Final Temple began to swing against the Purple Team, etc.) In addition, although excellent in terms of strategy and general ability to win missions, Dakota's behavior crossed some lines that I would have preferred to not see crossed. So I didn't feel too bad about Purple not winning...but on the other hand, I also didn't really like Green.
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So, now I'm going to throw down the gauntlet and state mine: Hawaii is NOT the best season.
I have no problem with anyone who says or would say that Bryanah and Monroe best exemplified what Endurance is all about, or that they were the best team to never win.
But there were a lot of things about Hawaii that weren't actually all that great. I'll start with the location - it was not well chosen, all things considered, as evidenced by the fact that they had to hand out the boots partway through the game. Watching everyone get rained on so often wasn't always the most exciting. Maybe it was "prettier" than Tehachapi, but I'd much rather watch people deal with heat and dust than perpetually swampy conditions. They also didn't make as much use of the location as they could have - beyond Ring of Fire and maybe the totems used in Headstrong, did they even really bring anything Hawaiian up that much?
What about the missions? Ring of Fire and Out on a Limb were great, I'm Pulling for You was decent, and Try Tri Again was good for a mission that focused on mental abilities. But I can think of four missions from every other season that, taken together, I like at least as much as, if not more than, those four from Hawaii. E1 - Tilt, Knotted Up, Eruption, Dial In; E2 - Tower of Power, On the Ropes, Face to Face, Pathfinder; E4 - Raft Pull, Drop Out, Hang 5, Spin Fly; E5 - Unwind, Move It Along, Walk the Plank, All Tied Up; E6 - Memory Race, Box Launch, Island Hopping, Scavenger Hunt. Also, the bad missions of Hawaii need to be considered as well. Squaring Off is probably the worst mission overall of all six seasons. Color Coded was boring to watch and far too much based on luck, especially for the F3 Temple Mission. Pipeline was almost a single-player mission disguised as a teamwork mission (if you haven't watched it recently, watch it again carefully: Gray wins by Chris pushing the ball against the side of the track as he moves it, with Lindi doing almost nothing the whole time). Pipedreams was okay as RTS - except I think it would have been fairer to everyone if they'd just waited to hold it when it wasn't raining.
As regards the players and how they acted during the game, I really disliked the Lindi/Sarah/Nicole clique and how they tried to make Bryanah's life miserable. Also, Willa's inability to gel with Antonio was sad to watch. Finally, as many on this board have previously pointed out, Vanetta's (lack of) efforts during a lot of the missions made things much less exciting than they could have been.
Finally, I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but who wins each season affects pretty deeply how I feel about the season as a whole. And with that in mind, Chris and Lindi are my second least favorite winners, behind only Cealey and Alex from E5. Lindi not having to compete in the RTS, Chris' sneakiness in the partner selection, Chris and Lindi making Orange do the dirty work following Squaring Off, Lindi's general immaturity/brattishness, Chris and Lindi's questionable strategy vis-a-vis the Purple Team, and the clique I already mentioned (I fault Chris for this too, because he could have tried to counteract it) all made me dislike them.
There are other things too, but I'll stop here because I'm sure everyone already hates this post.
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Post by kwdrewfan on Feb 17, 2019 9:04:37 GMT -5
Alex & Cealey deserved to win Endurance: High Sierras more than Dakota & Kelsey. I actually 100% agree with this. It's something I realized on my most recent rewatch. For me, it's all about attitude; during the last few episodes, Purple's attitude got progressively worse - I'll refer to a lot of the things mentioned by carsonvega, in addition to how much they kept saying things like "we don't want Green to win, at all, we think we deserve it more than they do". Whereas Green at that point was starting to acknowledge where they went wrong during the game, how grateful they were to make it so far & especially to be there with their closest friends, and just focused so much more on positive things. Green (especially Cealey) gets such a bad rep for having "bad attitudes" and being mean, but to be honest... I didn't see it very much on my last rewatch. Cealey's blowout on Taylor in the final 4 is the only thing that stands out. All in all, I think both Kelsey and Dakota had worse attitudes than either Cealey or Alex. I can also say that I partially agree with carsonvega on Hawaii; I actually didn't enjoy that season as much as I thought I would this time around. The clique-y mindset was a huge turnoff for me, along with knowing the whole time that Gray was going to win, all the strategic moves that could have been made but weren't, the overall COMPLETE ignorance of applying real strategy as everyone just based their decisions on who they didn't like. Gray won another mission? Welp, you already know exactly what they're going to do. Purple won? They're doing whatever Gray would do. Orange? Same thing. Everybody was so noticeably immature save for a few exceptions (Monroe, Bryanah, Demian), especially in comparison to other seasons. I found it a little boring because it was predictable and there wasn't much to look forward to. (pretty much all of this also applies to E5 haha, but that's not what we're talking about here.) The final four deal between Orange & Yellow is really the only strategic highlight of this season. I thought the location was a cool choice, though, which is why I said I only partially agree  but I can see the validity in your points on that as well. I will definitely be revisiting this thread if I think of anything else! Love this kind of discussion! |
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Post by carsonvega on Feb 17, 2019 14:34:40 GMT -5
I thought the location was a cool choice, though, which is why I said I only partially agree but I can see the validity in your points on that as well. Just to clarify what I meant: I love Hawaii as a choice, but where they chose to go within Hawaii made a big difference. I would have chosen somewhere on the leeward (drier) side of the islands versus the windward side. |
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Post by amplify26 on Feb 17, 2019 16:41:06 GMT -5
carsonvega: A thesis on why E3 was not the best season? That was really well put, and I agree with the winner part (though I think Chris and Lindi were better than Nicole and Demian winning, haha), especially about how anti-climatic it was. However, the location was pretty great considering how intense is. And considering the difficulties to film it, it worked out quite nicely! For everyone on Alex and Cealey, that all sounds interesting! Makes me want to rewatch E5 soon.
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Post by Cruise meerkat Youssy on Feb 18, 2019 12:35:14 GMT -5
Hawaii isn’t personally my favorite season but I think it has the most iconic personalities and moments which is why it’s generally perceived as the “best” season
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Post by Cruise meerkat Youssy on Feb 18, 2019 12:41:39 GMT -5
Just some random opinions on certain people:
-I really liked Lana but I can see why people don’t
-Christian was annoying
-I liked Willa. I think I find her outbursts more confusing than anything. Of course I felt bad for Antonio but Willa just... didn’t seem like the kind of girl to act that way and she never actually explained why she didn’t like Antonio so I’m more just intrigued at the way she acted
-I unabashedly love E3 Sarah despite her part in the clique
-I respect y’all’s opinions on E5 but Green did not deserve the win over Purple to me. And I also liked Kelsey a lot even if I didn’t like Dakota’s antics
-Briana and Jackie are my favorites from E6. Really, Purple and Red were the only teams I was rooting for on that season... Orange was Green’s sidekick, Green had the Gray E3 superiority complex IMO, and Blue just... was irrelevant
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Post by Cruise meerkat Youssy on Feb 18, 2019 12:43:39 GMT -5
Also, in terms of a TV show... E5 didn’t have that good of a cast. I mean they had a lot of people who I liked and were nice but they weren’t fun or compelling to watch. Anna, Aric, Kristine, Cameron, Aeriel, heck even Alex the winner we hardly got to know...
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Post by amplify26 on Feb 18, 2019 16:51:21 GMT -5
Just some random opinions on certain people: -I liked Willa. I think I find her outbursts more confusing than anything. Of course I felt bad for Antonio but Willa just... didn’t seem like the kind of girl to act that way and she never actually explained why she didn’t like Antonio so I’m more just intrigued at the way she acted Interesting perspective. I didn't hate Willa as much as everyone else, but I did feel like her response was unwarranted. That said, I do have a soft spot for Sabrina. Not to say her tactics were nice or anything, but there was something about her ambition that really piqued me. I also mentioned this before, but I do like Annie and Jeszie a lot. And based on the comments here, is it just me, or has E5 not aged well? It's considered one of the best seasons, but it seems like the drama had a good way of putting people off. In addition, with the exceptions of the RTS, Move it Along, Walk the Plank, It's a Drag, and All Tied Up, none of the missions were spectacular. |
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Post by kwdrewfan on Feb 19, 2019 11:17:19 GMT -5
I also mentioned this before, but I do like Annie and Jeszie a lot. And based on the comments here, is it just me, or has E5 not aged well? It's considered one of the best seasons, but it seems like the drama had a good way of putting people off. In addition, with the exceptions of the RTS, Move it Along, Walk the Plank, It's a Drag, and All Tied Up, none of the missions were spectacular. I looove Jeszie! And I mentioned this in the E2 board, but I like Annie much more now than I used to. I also agree with you on E5 not aging well. It seems that as years go by, everyone starts liking that season less and less. Now I might get slammed for this, but I honestly have a hard time listening to Daniela talk in interviews. Like I LOVE her sweet spirit & enthusiasm for the game, but whenever she would give an interview it was just like................. honey....... she wasn't very well-spoken. I'll leave it at that. Lol |
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Post by crystalclearhawaii on Feb 20, 2019 14:04:17 GMT -5
Gotta agree firetruck421. Daniela was cute in confessionals, but definitely awkward unless she won.
And man, High Sierras... used to be my fave after Hawaii, but rewatching it, it seems more like a summer camp Disney Channel drama than a competition show to be blunt XD still love it though
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Post by Cruise meerkat Youssy on Apr 12, 2019 9:05:44 GMT -5
More unpopular opinions: -Brown team should not have won E2, point blank period. As Scooter said, that was Endurance 2, not Endurance 1 reincarnated. It's great they got a chance to come back and play the game but someone cast for that season should've won, IMO. -The twists started to get kind of... not good in E5 and E6. They should've scrapped Mana Kisi and Triangle of Immunity, among other things. -I like the Temple of Fate concept. If this were a show like Survivor for a million dollars or something, then hell no eliminations shouldn't be up to luck. But the prizes were never the main part of Endurance, it was more about the experience than anything. So the thought that be careful who you send to Temple because ANYONE can come back is a good one. -Will E6 didn't deserve to be on the show. Well, he won the poll so I guess he "deserved" it but he had never even seen Endurance before going on the show. A true Endurance fan should've had his spot (like the person who got second in the poll brycet!) |
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Post by kwdrewfan on Apr 12, 2019 9:39:04 GMT -5
I agree with all of those ^
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Post by carsonvega on Apr 12, 2019 15:44:41 GMT -5
More unpopular opinions: -The twists started to get kind of... not good in E5 and E6. They should've scrapped Mana Kisi and Triangle of Immunity, among other things.
I agree that the Triangle of Immunity was really poor. Any team that doesn't win a temple mission should be vulnerable to being sent to temple, period. I guess maybe I'd think of it differently if Blue had gotten it and was actually able to use it or something. But as it was, Purple had it and never needed it...it felt like a classic case of "the rich get richer". Maybe it would have been more interesting if, after every temple, if it wasn't used, it had to be passed to another team that hadn't had it yet, up to the F4.
As for Mana Kisi...I kind of like it as an idea (a significant but not foolproof advantage at temple), and the amount of effort required to get it in Sand Bar Relay was significant, so I didn't mind it too much. I acknowledge that it did take away some of the drama of the F4 Green-Orange temple, but it also provided a somewhat interesting storyline about Green lying at camp about what it actually was. So...while I wouldn't want to see it in every season, I thought it was okay in its one season.
I don't think it's fair to claim that bad twists were exclusively the province of E5 and E6, though. I really didn't like allowing one team to steal ALL of another team's pieces in Hawaii. Steal one, maybe. But aside from the final pieces missions (where there is nothing else that can really be done), Tilt in E1, and Island Hopping in E6, no other mission allows a team to even get two pieces at once, much less make another team lose two pieces at the same time. Also, from a thematic point of view, it just feels wrong to say that a team currently does not possess any Commitment, Courage, Discipline, Friendship, Heart, Ingenuity, Karma, Knowledge, Leadership, Luck, Perseverance, Strength, Teamwork, or Trust...I mean, if someone doesn't have any of those things, they're probably dead. It added to the drama to be sure, but also helped lead directly to the most lopsided, short, and boring Final Temple of all six seasons.
Maybe it's not right to consider individual mission variances as twists, but I do. So with that said, another bad twist that appeared in Fiji but was originally introduced in Hawaii was, in a nutshell, "a random team wins the temple mission." That is, You're Fired in E3 and Stand Bags in E6. Yeah, I know, teams could use their skill to improve their chances, but considering how late in the game both of these missions happened, I feel like it would have been a lot more fair to have some method that produced a clear winner, not determined by a random draw. (Maybe just eliminate the tebenuts in Fiji - although Stand Bags was pretty boring - but have a completely different mission in Hawaii.)
A third twist that was bad and appeared in E1 and E3 was the Samadhi that made a team have to completely sit out of the temple mission (Squeeze Play and Balance Ball). It's just not as exciting when fewer teams are able to play the missions! |
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Post by Cruise meerkat Youssy on Apr 12, 2019 16:02:26 GMT -5
Hm, yeah... I think if the E3 steal the pieces twist had happened earlier in the game when teams hadn't had a lot of time to accumulate more pieces then it would've been okay. Like maybe after the teams were formed and the twist was in the first Endurance mission "steal someone else's piece" then that team isn't AS screwed over and they still have most of the game to work their way back up. And the other team wouldn't have such a big advantage.
I will agree that there were some janky missions. E5 superteams twist is one of the worst ones as well.
I also didn't like the "sit out the Temple mission" Samadhis. I know they were going for the most dramatic they could get but it felt actually very unfair.
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but I can see the validity in your points on that as well.
