Interesting things when rematching E4

Waterworks:

--Well, we had two endurance missions to decide superteams and one with an uber-big Samadhi, so I wouldn't say Waterworks is the most important.

Some of it is only clear with hindsight (looking back on E4 as a whole), but I do think Waterworks' fallout of Purple coming in last, Green attempting to save them, and then Green basically getting revenge on Orange for getting Purple out of Fireball had a fairly large impact on the season. Specifically, to the extent that it reduced Red's odds of going to temple after Fireball, it brought Red that much closer to the end of the game...and since Red wasn't an equal member within the Green-Purple alliance, every step closer to the end for them made a difference. I also think Green's performance in Waterworks (and Fireball) helped to cement them getting the Samadhi from Purple after CYOG for Circle of Trust. As I wrote in my posts above, I don't think Red (Erika) would have lost Circle of Trust even if Red had been given the Samadhi for that mission...but if the Circle of Trust mission had been something else, that Samadhi could have made a big difference.

--That was a serious blindside by the Yellow Team. Did they feel betrayed by the Purple Team because they sent them to Temple? Or did Franke and Erika have a better social game than we imagined?

Yellow might have felt a little betrayed by Purple, but I think Yellow had alliances with all 3 of Green, Purple, and Red, and I would guess that Callie liked Erika the best out of Erika/Jeszie/Daniela, while Chris' preference among Franke/Isaac/Jonathan was not as strong.

I think Franke and Erika had quite a good social game overall. Every time they were targeted to go to the temple or got a Samadhi, it wasn't because anyone thought they deserved to go home; it was because Red did seem like a threat to win and Purple and Green were just really, really tightly aligned. The problem with tight alliances is that they do tend to frustrate the other teams within the game, and in a large alliance it usually becomes clear by the end of the game that two teams within that alliance were tighter than all the other teams within that alliance (two examples: 1 - in E3, Orange knew with 4 teams left that Gray and Purple were going to stick together no matter what and therefore moved to try to break up Gray and Purple; 2 - members of the Orange and Red teams voted to give Blue the advantage for All Tied Up in E5 even though Orange and Red were aligned with Purple and Green). Though resentment toward Green and Purple in E4 was more muted compared to resentment in other seasons, it could still be seen a little bit; in the Hang 5 episode (still coming up for you on this rewatch) Michael specifically said "No hard feelings, Jeszie" in Orange's goodbye letter.

So Red was kind of in the sweet spot where they did have some ties to the Green-Purple alliance (specifically how Jeszie was trying to keep Erika in the game as long as possible), but also were well-liked by the other teams getting eliminated (obviously Yellow and Orange since Red got pieces from both of those teams, but Blue also respected Red even though Blue didn't give Red their pieces due to the Isaac-Amelia connection).

----This is the first time in which Shea and Amelia seem to succeed; a few more teamwork challenges and they could've won one or two.

Yes, I don't think Shea and Amelia were a bad team; Isaac and Jeszie were just really, really good during this portion of the game, and then Purple had that extremely fast win during Cubed that did them in.

--Franke: "If Green gives us the Samadhi, that's the nail to the coffin. If they give us the Samadhi, then that means they want us gone, and that means it's every man for himself." That's a curious analysis, seeing that Red might have thought they were all in this together (vs. Orange and Blue, apparently?). Then again, we've seen that Green and Purple are particularly closer to each other than with Red. So Red is more of a neutral party here?

I think Red would have gone along with getting out Blue first, then Orange, but Franke was definitely willing to change things up when Green gave them the Samadhi. It makes sense to me - why wouldn't one at least consider all options after getting targeted with the Samadhi unexpectedly?

--It feels like Michael is the closest thing in e4 to a villain, along with Jeszie. However, neither of their arcs are based on malice to the other team; it's based on how to maintain their friendships.

Yes, there's no way that Michael and Jeszie are on the same level as Sabrina, Nicole, or the Purple-Green E5 alliance in terms of villainy. In E4, the teams' story arcs seem more about showing the different facets of the various teams (strengths and weaknesses/positive and negative) than trying to establish a single team or alliance of teams as villainous. It's true that Orange in E4 didn't get a lot of screen time, but Kylie did at least get a chance to explain that the problem with Orange was that Michael wasn't liked by most of the other guys. The content we did get of Kylie showed that she was quite perceptive.

Fireball:

--Is it just me, or based on Franke's comment, it seems like Purple and Green are the "head honchos" of Tehachapi?
----Very curious in that same dynamic would play out on High Sierras.

The Purple and Green alliance in E4 definitely defined the season just as the Purple and Green alliance in E5 defined that season, but to me the colors matching is coincidence; E4 played out very differently than E5. In E4, Purple-Green solidified after Yellow left (Jonathan said he couldn't decide between sending Yellow or sending Green with Red to temple after Super Stumped), whereas in E5 Purple and Green were already tight during the Hot Potato/partner switch episode. In E4, the biggest opponent of the Purple-Green alliance (Red) still had some ties to that alliance and notably avoided getting sent to the temple with 5 teams left (in part because Purple and Green were not close to Orange); in E5 Blue had basically no space to maneuver within the Purple-Green alliance, as Purple and Green had Red and Orange set to oppose Blue in every possible way (until after Red and Orange were eliminated from the game).

--It's strange that despite being voted back on the show, Fireball didn't make it on the "Top Ten Challenges" show afterwards.
----What other challenges would work at this point? I keep thinking of Face to Face or On the Ropes from season 2.

I wonder if the fact that Fireball was re-used on E4 made the producers intentionally skip over it when compiling the Top Ten Challenges show.

On the Ropes from E2 (with a 10-second delay Samadhi) would be fine. I don't think Face to Face would work as a temple mission because the rope between each team already gets stretched to the limit (so it can't be shorter with a Samadhi), the structure has to lift all the teams at once (so one team can't start early with a Samadhi), and the primary force in play is parallel to the horizon/water (so an extra weight Samadhi like in E4 Circle of Trust also doesn't work well).

Of the other temple missions used with 5 teams left in the game - E1 Eruption would be fine in this spot (although Franke and Erika wouldn't have been handicapped as much by having a shorter rope, since they were the tallest team); E2 Cherry Picker would work (including with the 2-foot Samadhi Brown got); I wouldn't want to see E3's Balance Ball again (hate the Samadhi that makes a team sit out - plus that wouldn't work well with the twist from Waterworks - either the team that lost Waterworks would automatically be going to the temple upon receiving the Samadhi, or they would have a much easier time winning with one competitor team completely out from the beginning of the mission which wouldn't feel fair); E5's It's a Drag would be possible (though I don't know what the Samadhi would be since E5 didn't have one for It's a Drag - maybe a 300-pound container instead of 280-pound, or a 5-10 ft longer distance to drag it?); E6's Weight an Hour wouldn't work as well since E4 didn't have a great beach.

Not limiting it to temple missions with 5 teams left in the game, I also think E1 Knotted Up would have played reasonably well in this spot - not bad to watch plus not duplicative of other missions within E4 (I would not try Tower of Power after Blocked already happened in E4, for instance).

--Green is a little bit too happy about eliminating Orange.

Yeah, I get that Purple had a lot of sympathy from most of the other teams, but I think JD should have poked Green about this when it happened. Jeszie dancing and Isaac cheering and clapping loudly wasn't a great look. And Orange had been right (from a strategic perspective) to eliminate Purple - their only other choice was Red, and Red was handicapped by the Samadhi and hadn't looked great during their first shot.

--I thought the first one to catch it amongst those two wins. I sort of imagined the end of Fireball from e2 here.
--I have a feeling that you could put e2's Fireball and e4's side-by-side, and put down "Chanel" vs. "Walmart" for each of them. I don't think Fireball worked at all at this point in the game. That said, the stakes are played out a lot here, especially with J.D. noting it could go either way if either Red or Green won.

Though the camera shows the teams taking their shots sequentially rather than simultaneously, Fireball as a mission works in rounds (each team gets one shot in each round). If a team catches their ball, they're safe in that round; if they miss their catch they can be eliminated. So even though Green caught the ball first when it was down to just Green and Red, Red had a chance to equalize/protect themselves by making a catch, and they did that the first time, not the second time.

E2's Fireball worked so much better because of the variance that the surf/sea breeze caused (not present on Tehachapi's inland lake), plus the ball was smaller so it was harder to control (plus I feel like the distance between the slingshot and the catching platform was longer?) Fireball works so much better as a mission when it's more likely that the teams miss their shot than make it. It also works so much better when there are more teams in the game and thus more strategy required when deciding which team to eliminate when making a catch. Yes, the end of this mission did seem like there were a lot of stakes attached to it, but as I wrote above, I think lots of other missions would have worked better in this spot.

--Jeszie: "If you win, I'm gone. If I win, you're not gone." So their alliance was one-sided?

I think if Green hadn't given Red the Samadhi from winning Waterworks (and instead given it to Blue), Franke would definitely have been on board with sending Blue with Purple to the temple if Red had won Fireball. I think Franke was only upset with Green because of getting the Samadhi earlier than he thought Red was going to get it. Yet Erika said that Red wasn't going to send Green in this conversation. So it would have been interesting to see what Red would have decided if they would have won this mission after getting the Samadhi. Objectively, Green is the biggest threat that Red could send to the temple (3 pieces plus the most mission wins up to this point)...but I don't know how it would play out. Jeszie and Erika were friends and based on the combined Jeszie and Isaac confessional Jeszie would have wanted to move against Blue if she could have, plus Franke had been on board with getting Blue out before getting the Samadhi, so Red might still have sent Blue.

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Interesting things when rematching E4 Jul 25, 2022 23:49:32 GMT -5 carsonvega likes this

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Post by amplify26 on Jul 25, 2022 23:49:32 GMT -5

carsonvega : Nice analysis you've got there, especially with Red's status as a neutral party! I got a sense they acted as such in terms of the game, in comparison to Connor and Taylor the following season, who were all but locked out when Yellow got eliminated. Also, you have intriguing comments on the edit involved, in that it shows the teams through their strengths and weaknesses vs. a general arc. It's clear with some of the ones on the ropes (Orange with their dealing, Blue and Gray with their alliance, etc.)

Speaking of which...

Hang 5:
--J.D.: "Daniela, last time I saw you I wasn't sure I was ever going to see a smile like this again on your face." Something about that is a bit sweet.
--"My girl Erika, keep Franke in line and win." Hehe.
--Based on Erika's comment, it does feel like Red is a rival power. At the same time, it also doesn't feel that way because they aren't as antagonistic to each other.
--Franke: "Geez, it's Amelia!" The way Franke says it is so deadpan.
--The way we focus on Isaac and Amelia's friendship, and then Jeszie's anger about it, makes it look like she's a jealous woman. Haha.
--J.D.: "Watching you guys come down here I'm almost looking for the rest of you."
--Why didn't Erika just push on top, seeing how strong she is?
--"Erika's gotta be holding on for a very long time..."
--Isaac: "I'm going to be endurance champion--that's right, you're looking at him right here."
--I feel like Hang 5 was one of the better challenges of Tehachapi thus far, along with Raft Pull and Waterworks.
--Had either Purple or Blue won this mission, who gets the Samadhi would be a bit more straightforward...(I could see Purple giving it to Red, because they are a threat and Jonathan wouldn't want to go after Green, whereas Blue might choose between Red and Purple.)
--It's fascinating to see how Green won three missions in a row (a feat only matched by Aaron and Jonna), and yet seeing them break down and not even make the finale. Probably the best non-finalists ever in terms of strength, along with Annie and Jeff.
--Jonathan: "Obviously it didn't work the best, but it worked...second-best."
--Isaac: "If I didn't have to make the decision, I wouldn't, because I don't want to have to choose between Red, Blue, or Purple." So, why didn't they think about just throwing the Samadhi out of the game? Asking for a friend (Or Isaac and Jeszie, if they stumble upon this part of the internet).
--Isaac: "Why would you send Purple?"/Shea: "I don't know--why would I send you?" This is just the appetizer to such a spicy meal.
--Jeszie: "Did you not see how Franke blew the mission for Erika?" Help, I'm bawling.
--"IsN't It AbOuT iNdIvIdUaLiTy?!"
--Jeszie: "Purple and Red are the same thing--they are equal." Who's the true underdog of endurance Tehachapi?
--Jeszie: "[Purple]'s just safe because of you." I'm calling foul on that, because Purple won a Temple Mission and the Superteam challenge. For the latter, they could've chosen to send Green up, but didn't. So...
--Jeszie: "Now let's talk quiet so I could explain..." Haha, I'm dying here.
--Isaac: "Oh, I'm mistaken..."
--Amelia is very courageous to volunteer to take the Samadhi from Green to bring the peace.
----On another note, why didn't Purple intervene here? I've seen a few comments on YouTube which look down on them as a result because they weren't going to volunteer to take this disadvantage for the greater good.
--I'm still wondering why nobody brought up the idea of throwing the Samadhi out. While that sounds like the path of least resistance (especially with what lessons J.D. wants to teach), and it might cost Green an ally depending who won the following mission, it's also the best way to make sure nobody gets hurt and the game could go on.
--J.D. "It could make the game very very difficult to win." Oh boy...
--If you were Isaac or Jeszie, what would've you done?
--kwdrewfan, please make a gifset of this fight!

~αмρℓїϝуXXVI
<3 Chelsea Myers/Erika Cook/Taylor Sico-McNulty

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Interesting things when rematching E4 Jul 26, 2022 0:44:58 GMT -5

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Post by amplify26 on Jul 26, 2022 0:44:58 GMT -5

Cubed:

--Erika: "I don't want it to be a puzzle..."
----Jeszie: "What, do you think you're dumb?"
--Why does Purple think Blue doesn't like them?
--"It's an agonizing minute, sir." That quote will never not be iconic.
--Apparently the strategy is to start with the base, and build from there.
--Purple winning Cubed in under a minute is a pretty underrated moment from this show, along with the mission.
----Do you think Franke and Erika would've had a chance had that minute passed and they were allowed to compete?
----It's also surprising how a Samadhi which didn't say a team couldn't participate in a challenge leaves them out nevertheless. So Purple did a bunch of endurance flukes--eliminated the team that sent them up at Temple, and prevented a team from entering a challenge. They're definitely not Alex and Cealey.
--The producers thought this would take 5-10 minutes; the players thought it would take 3-5 minutes. How long did you think it would've took before the game started?
--Franke: "So if you want to send us, congratulations, just remember me as I am now--filled with anger and rage."
--Franke: "Why couldn't everything go according to plan." Mood.
--I don't think Purple would be earning themselves any points if they sent Green to Temple and they've been eliminated (then I wouldn't be sure if Purple would get their pieces as a result...), but I see Daniela's point.
--J.D. "It's too bad, in a moment of such beauty and peace, we have to make such a difficult and powerful decision."
--Jonathan: "We decided that Green Team..." He got us in the first half, not gonna lie.
--Jonathan: "everyone has had an awesome run."/Shea: "even if we hadn't won anything."
--Isaac: "The Green Team is the only team that hasn't gone to Temple yet."/Franke: "If I come back, I'll see to that, boy!"
--I never thought that there was any proper beef amongst the girls; maybe there was some behind the scenes? Daniela did come off as a nice person, but who was mean to whom?
--Franke: "If I'm not back in two hours, I have been eliminated." Who wants to make this their e-mail closer?
--Franke taking his hat off in tribute to Shea's exit was quite touching.
--Best top three ever.
--Also, it's quite funny how only three teams on e4 won at least one non-superteam mission.

~αмρℓїϝуXXVI
<3 Chelsea Myers/Erika Cook/Taylor Sico-McNulty

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Interesting things when rematching E4 Jul 26, 2022 12:32:16 GMT -5 amplify26 likes this

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Post by carsonvega on Jul 26, 2022 12:32:16 GMT -5

Hang 5:
--Why didn't Erika just push on top, seeing how strong she is?
--"Erika's gotta be holding on for a very long time..."

I wonder if they had Erika hold because Franke didn't think he would be that good at holding on...I think the players holding in this mission had to hold on for a combined longer amount of time than they had to hold on for in the RTS, Hang Glide (although they could of course rest briefly at each end while picking up the piece and putting it in the rack, but that's still a lot of arm tiredness).

--It's fascinating to see how Green won three missions in a row (a feat only matched by Aaron and Jonna), and yet seeing them break down and not even make the finale. Probably the best non-finalists ever in terms of strength, along with Annie and Jeff.

Yes, it's an interesting comparison between Isaac/Jeszie and Jeff/Annie. Isaac/Jeszie won more missions overall (Blocked/Waterworks/Fireball/Hang 5, versus Fireball/Face to Face/Cherry Picker). But 2 of Jeff/Annie's wins were with their backs against the wall/they had to win or else they were headed to the temple, whereas I don't think any of Isaac/Jeszie's wins were under that much pressure. Also, I think Max/Jenna, Mike/Keetin, Shep/Calley, and Tyler/Michelle at the time of E2 were at least a little bit tougher competition (considering all of them combined) than Franke/Erika, Jonathan/Daniela, Shea/Amelia, and Michael/Kylie at the time of E4.

--Isaac: "If I didn't have to make the decision, I wouldn't, because I don't want to have to choose between Red, Blue, or Purple." So, why didn't they think about just throwing the Samadhi out of the game? Asking for a friend (Or Isaac and Jeszie, if they stumble upon this part of the internet).

I wonder if the producers didn't want to have the Samadhi thrown out of the game because this wasn't going to be the last Samadhi - there was going to be another Samadhi after CYOG for Circle of Trust. It's interesting that only E1, E3, and E4 had possible Samadhis for the last temple mission when there were 3 teams left (although E5 Blue's Karma advantage was kind of like an anti-Samadhi).

--Jeszie: "Purple and Red are the same thing--they are equal." Who's the true underdog of endurance Tehachapi?
--Jeszie: "[Purple]'s just safe because of you." I'm calling foul on that, because Purple won a Temple Mission and the Superteam challenge. For the latter, they could've chosen to send Green up, but didn't. So...

Red is the underdog, to the extent every season must have one. Yes, Daniela was initially upset about getting paired with Jonathan, but Purple won Raft Pull just 2 game days after the partner selection, so they really did work through their differences quickly. Not even counting the Superteam mission, Purple won more missions than Red (Raft Pull/Cubed/CYOG and arguably Spin Fly since they won more pieces there, versus just Drop Out/Circle of Trust for Red). And I would argue that the game structure of Endurance requires that the underdogs are not in the strongest two-team alliance, so Purple clearly fails that measure. If Purple was an underdog, which other underdog had a team (Green in Purple's case) willing to intentionally lose a mission to them just to protect them from going to the temple? There isn't one. Purple "feels" like an underdog in the Waterworks/Fireball episodes because Daniela is so sad about having to go to temple, but unlike true underdogs, them having to go to temple was because of their own failures in Waterworks, not because they were being relentlessly targeted. (Yes, Orange took them out of Fireball, but that wasn't a case of Orange trying to stick it to them unfairly, as I explained above.)

I would actually say that if one hates to think of Red as an underdog because of how Erika won Drop Out, the next best candidate for an underdog in E4 is not Purple, but Blue. Blue lost their best friends/alliance partners (Gray) at the very beginning of the team phase of the game and pretty much all of the other teams in the game viewed them as a target. But they still survived through 2 eliminations while being no other team's favorite team. Obviously not as impressive an underdog story as E3 Yellow, but who is?

I agree that Jeszie saying "Purple's just safe because of you" is not one of her strong points in this argument. It does make it clear that Jeszie liked Erika better than she liked Purple.

----On another note, why didn't Purple intervene here? I've seen a few comments on YouTube which look down on them as a result because they weren't going to volunteer to take this disadvantage for the greater good.

I would guess this is because Purple wasn't confident of their own ability to win missions, and wanted to win really badly since at this point they hadn't won a mission alone since Raft Pull (and as I've noted, Shea was leading their Superteam in Super Stumped). Purple was also the only team at this point that had only 1 piece. So Purple had something to prove, and getting the Samadhi certainly wouldn't help with that.

--If you were Isaac or Jeszie, what would've you done?

If Red wins, they're likely to send Green to the temple. Either Red sends Green and Purple to break up the alliance, or Red sends Green and Blue as the two likely strongest teams (keeping in mind that Purple would only have won Raft Pull alone at this point if they didn't win Cubed, and that was largely because Purple wasn't really targeted in Raft Pull). Either way, Red should send Green if they're playing strategically. So, since Green is safe as long as they win or Purple wins, it really does make the most sense for Green to give the Samadhi to Red to try to make sure Red can't win. Sure, if Blue would win they would probably also send Green, but Blue hadn't won anything alone yet, so I do think Red is Green's biggest threat, since Green doesn't have to worry about Purple.

Though Green couldn't have been sure of this at the time of Hang 5, not targeting Blue with the Samadhi in this spot also looks great in hindsight, since Green got Blue's pieces.

Cubed:

--Why does Purple think Blue doesn't like them?

I think this is a combination of 3 things: Purple sending Blue and Gray to temple after Raft Pull, the Isaac-Amelia connection, and Red's relatively good rapport with Blue (as you noted, Franke took his hat off in respect when Blue was eliminated - that didn't come from nowhere). I don't think Blue hated Purple, but Blue liked Purple less than Green or Red.

--Apparently the strategy is to start with the base, and build from there.
--Purple winning Cubed in under a minute is a pretty underrated moment from this show, along with the mission.
----Do you think Franke and Erika would've had a chance had that minute passed and they were allowed to compete?
--The producers thought this would take 5-10 minutes; the players thought it would take 3-5 minutes. How long did you think it would've took before the game started?

Franke has said he was good at puzzles, so if Red had been allowed to compete I think they would have had a chance.

I wouldn't have thought that Cubed would be completed under 1 minute, but maybe 2 minutes. A 3x3x3 cube (27 mini-blocks) is really quite simple, especially when one 3x3 layer is composed of exactly 2 pieces (the 5 mini-block U-shape and the 4 mini-block T-shape) without any extra mini-blocks sticking into other layers. Effectively, that 3x3 layer could be put on the bottom face, the top face, or any of the 4 side faces of the cube, making it fairly easy to finish the rest of the puzzle. I would use a 3x3x3 cube as a puzzle for about 5th grade level. For the players in Endurance (between 12 and 15 years old), I would guess a sizeable percentage of them would have taken Geometry before going on the show (I took Geometry when I was 13-14, plus my late elementary school math classes also had a fair amount of Geometry). So, I really think the Cubed puzzle in Endurance should have been 4x4x4 (64 mini-blocks), with no layers composed cleanly (that is, at least one mini-block would stick into the next layer when the first layer is complete).

With all that said, I'm an engineer now and I played a fair amount of geometric games growing up (the video game Tetris, the board game Blokus in electronic format, plus physical versions of geometric puzzles like Rush Hour, Shape by Shape, Brick by Brick, Block by Block)...so maybe my expectations are skewed.

--Best top three ever.

Yes, E4 has the best top three and it's not close. If E2 had ended up Brown/Green/Purple as the top 3 that would have been a good group...but E2 Green didn't let that happen (and I think they were smart to do that - I think if Purple had won E2 Plank Maze, they also would have sent up Brown and Green as their two toughest competitors at that point).

I also did like the Final 3 of Karma in 2020 (Jack/Skyla, Aaron/Andrea, Justin/Avon)...but I feel like Karma has to be judged separately from Endurance for this.

--Also, it's quite funny how only three teams on e4 won at least one non-superteam mission.

In all other seasons of Endurance, only 4 teams won a non-Superteam mission. And some of those wins felt unusual or fluky - E5 Red's only non-Superteam win was Walk the Plank and I think Purple could have stayed in and won that if they had wanted to; E6 Blue's only win was the first half of 3 To Go/Shark Bait and that was somewhat of a memory mission but also somewhat luck based; E3 Orange won Squaring Off when Gray gave them the victory by taking themselves out and E3 Orange's other two wins in You're Fired and Color Coded were effectively determined by random draw. So E4 doesn't feel really unusual to me, and I like the fact that none of the mission wins in E4 felt fluky.

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Interesting things when rematching E4 Jul 26, 2022 23:04:16 GMT -5

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Post by amplify26 on Jul 26, 2022 23:04:16 GMT -5

Create Your Own Game:

--J.D.: "You have the piece you started with, and that's pretty much it." This is also Green from e2.
--"Probably the hardest elimination we've had to date..." Not exactly...in terms of eliminating friends, Red and Purple from e1 and Green from Hawaii stand out. Purple e2 because they were one of the strongest teams too. Personally, Yellow e2 was harsh (especially after they lost Cherry Picker by a hair and seeing Calley cry), as well as Yellow e3 and Blue e5 (for the latter, it's been 15 years and I still cannot watch All Tied Up). What about you?
--No love for Franke from Shea?
--Couldn't the contestants theoretically create a game that isn't a race?
--Green's accomplishment is quite exaggerated, because Gray was the only other team to receive a Samadhi on Tehachapi.
--Just the way Franke and Erika go "Inside, outside" was quite amusing.
--Haha at everyone dropping their blocks in one fell swoop.
--Jonathan: "Between Purple and Green, we've won every mission except for one. And I was never in danger, really, because Green was winning; and they were never in danger as we were winning."
--Jeszie: "You have nothing to worry about."
--Erika: "It's like we want to go up against the strongest team, and try to win." Basically the argument against Blue throwing the Samadhi back on e1.
--I like Jonathan's little office. Too bad there's not much electricity to go around in Tehachapi.
--Don't delude yourself, Jonathan.
--A team of Daniela and Monroe would be quite fun, had they competed in the same season.
--Would Erika still win Circle of Trust with a ten-pound weight?
--I wonder of Isaac and Jonathan still keep in touch.

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Interesting things when rematching E4 Jul 27, 2022 0:44:57 GMT -5

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Post by amplify26 on Jul 27, 2022 0:44:57 GMT -5

Circle of Trust:

--Jonathan: "Wow, it's way too quiet here." Legend has it, if you listen closely, you can still hear Willa confessing.
--Do you guys think that Red would've broken the Three Temple Curse had they got sent?
--Franke's disgruntlement when he finds out about the challenge.
--Did Green overcome anything this season?
--Daniela: "This is easier than I thought."/Franke: "Quiet." Haha.
--Jeszie's "Bye" after Franke's sure he's not going to hold on was quite funny. And deadpan.
--With the amount of breathing involved, it sounded like we're having babies on Tehachapi.
--Seeing Daniela go from falling easily in the previous endurance-based missions, to continuing to hold on here, is just a nice act to behold. even though she was complaining a lot.
--Erika: "We've already been up twice! We don't want to go up again."
--"I don't want to go home anymore." I'm guessing because Erika is so close to the end, it's best to just go out and win.
--The fate of the Purple-Green alliance is in Daniela's destroyed hands.
--Jonathan: "[Daniela] showed what the Purple Team is all about." How sweet of him.
--I like this better than Drop Out, for some reason, in terms of structure. The in-game conversations are a lot more serious, though.
--This is one of only two seasons (the other being Fiji) where an alliance doesn't survive until the end.
--Franke: "I'm there now, I might as well win."
--If I had a dollar for every time two teams picked the same element at Temple, I'd have three dollars.
----I've also heard that the editing team takes out the ties in making the episodes, so why would they keep those three in particular?
--This Temple is so anxiety-inducing in particular.
--It must feel awful to be Isaac and Jeszie at that point--to make it so far, and then lose a day short of winning it all, it must be sad. What have they fought for if not the title? (Also, they don't seem to get lumped into the "third-placed fan favorites" for some reason.)
--Daniela and Jonathan (especially Jonathan) are more saddened for Green than happy they made the final.
--J.D: "And Jeszie, to see you in the beginning, and how tough you were, and how you didn't want to let anyone in the inside. And to see you now, makes me see how great of a connection, how great of a friend, you made in Isaac." There's something really sweet about this commentary, in that we saw little pieces of vulnerability with Jeszie here. It's also cool to see how they are close, even though they had one of the biggest fights in the series.

~αмρℓїϝуXXVI
<3 Chelsea Myers/Erika Cook/Taylor Sico-McNulty

carsonvega
Won an Endurance Mission

Posts: 187

Interesting things when rematching E4 Jul 27, 2022 13:07:51 GMT -5 amplify26 likes this

Quote

Post by carsonvega on Jul 27, 2022 13:07:51 GMT -5

Create Your Own Game:

--"Probably the hardest elimination we've had to date..." Not exactly...in terms of eliminating friends, Red and Purple from e1 and Green from Hawaii stand out. Purple e2 because they were one of the strongest teams too. Personally, Yellow e2 was harsh (especially after they lost Cherry Picker by a hair and seeing Calley cry), as well as Yellow e3 and Blue e5 (for the latter, it's been 15 years and I still cannot watch All Tied Up). What about you?

I feel like there are kind of 2 categories for this - eliminations which are noticeably hard for at least some of the remaining cast, and eliminations which are hard for fans/the audience. Some eliminations may fit into both categories - when this happens it's often one significantly more than the other.

For E4 Blue, I feel like this one was harder for the remaining cast than fans. So much of Blue's story as told to fans was being the first team formed and then their ill-fated alliance with Gray and being targeted because of that - not really enough to make fans care about them more than Purple, Red, or Green.

I agree with your selections. I think E3 Yellow and E5 Blue were very hard for fans, but not as hard for the remaining cast. E3 Green was both (hard for fans and for E3 Yellow/E3 Green).

In addition to the ones you listed, I had a hard time with E5 Gray (Connor and Taylor betraying their previous teammates by giving them the Samadhi, and then Connor revealing Darci's temple strategy to Yellow) and E5 Yellow (after they became "the new Gray" getting targeted in Fill and Spill and had to watch and not participate in the awful E5 Superteams mission). I would have liked to see E6 Purple stay longer than E6 Orange (yes, I know Purple wasn't facing Orange when they left - I just thought they had some potential that we didn't get to see because they left so early).

--No love for Franke from Shea?

I might chalk this up to the complexity of emotions one feels when one is eliminated from a game, particularly in Endurance where elimination is the fault of both the team that sends you to the temple and the team that beats you at the temple. It can be hard to be happy with the last team you saw when you were still in the game. For some reason I am reminded of something E2 Mike said on the Endurance Reunion/Karma podcast from 2020 - the E2 cast was notably very close to each other (having many reunions after the show), but Mike remembered that Annie was upset at him for a short time after the show (she of course eventually forgave the Green team). So Annie's anger was more directed toward Green than Brown, even though Brown had started the ball rolling on getting Purple out by sending them to temple the first time. Emotions are complicated.

--Couldn't the contestants theoretically create a game that isn't a race?

The materials the teams were given really pushed them toward setting up a race. A lot of the missions which are "hold on as long as you can" rather than races (such as E1 Tilt and E5 Walk the Plank) make use of the structure which I don't think the teams had access to use for CYOG, and of course the materials also didn't really leave any way to create a good puzzle like E3 Try Tri Again. I think the contestants could have set up something that was "hold on as long as you can" - maybe each player would have to balance 4 or more blocks on top of the cylinder for as long as they could, for example - though I'm not sure they had enough cylinders (6) to give each contestant one. One other thing that I think would push the contestants toward creating a race is that there's always the risk in a "hold on as long you can" mission that a team will be eliminated right away (like Green in E2 Face to Face). I don't blame teams for wanting to give themselves a way to come back - which can only happen in a race.

--Would Erika still win Circle of Trust with a ten-pound weight?

E1 Blue (Dial In), E3 Yellow (Bagging on You), E5 Purple (Fill 'Er Up), and E6 Red (half of 3 To Go/Shark Bait) overcame the Samadhi. Of all the other Samadhis given on all 6 seasons of Endurance, Red/Erika in Circle of Trust is the only one where I'm almost 100% sure that a team that didn't get the Samadhi would still win the mission even if they did get the Samadhi (so E4 Red could have become the 5th team on the list). The next closest to this is maybe E1 Knotted Up - Aaron/Jonna of course would never have had the Samadhi for Knotted Up since they gave it out themselves, but it did seem like they were significantly faster than the other teams and might have won even if they had somehow ended up with the extra knots.

Circle of Trust:

--Jonathan: "Wow, it's way too quiet here." Legend has it, if you listen closely, you can still hear Willa confessing.

Hahahahahahahaha...hilarious! On one hand, E4 would likely be remembered better if Willa and Antonio had been the 8th team on it. On the other hand, part of me wishes that E3 didn't have to infect everything.

--Did Green overcome anything this season?

Not really - no Samadhis and no temple visits prior to this episode. Probably their biggest stress was trying and failing to save Purple after Waterworks and during Fireball...but if Purple had gone home at that point there's no way that Green would have just given up, and Green still would have won Hang 5. I guess maybe JD was thinking of their fight in Hang 5?

--Seeing Daniela go from falling easily in the previous endurance-based missions, to continuing to hold on here, is just a nice act to behold. even though she was complaining a lot.

The contrast of Daniela complaining versus Erika basically just powering through it is something that always gets me when I watch this mission. I'm not criticizing Daniela for complaining - it's just interesting how different they are.

--Jonathan: "[Daniela] showed what the Purple Team is all about." How sweet of him.

Franke has said that the production crew on E4 told them (the E4 contestants) that they were the best group of contestants that Endurance had had up to that point. There are many quotes from E4 that could speak to this, but I think this one really does show how mature the majority of this cast was in terms of not dwelling on losses and not blaming their partners when they didn't win. Other seasons had some moments like this (in E2 Face to Face, both Mike and Keetin were willing to take blame when JD called them out for their poor performance at the cove, for instance), but I feel like E4 was the best in this category by a long way.

--This is one of only two seasons (the other being Fiji) where an alliance doesn't survive until the end.

I have always found discussions regarding the survival of alliances in Endurance a little strange. In E2, Green targeting Brown to go to the temple after Plank Maze could very well have resulted in Green being the last team left of the Green-Yellow-Brown alliance - or if Brown had survived and there had been a Samadhi for Pathfinder, Green getting that Samadhi from Brown. In E3, Gray, Purple, and Orange were in an alliance (with Red also in the group early on)...but it became so obvious that the real alliance was Gray-Purple and they were just letting the other teams tag along (benefiting exactly once when one of their tag along teams, Orange, won a mission - Squaring Off, which Gray could have won themselves but chose not to). So when the final 2 in E3 was Gray-Orange, it didn't really feel like the alliance made it to the end (with Gray even saying that Yellow deserved to make the end more than Orange). I acknowledge that an alliance doesn't necessarily end when one team within that alliance targets one of their partner teams in that alliance (sometimes that has to happen)...but there were quite significant breaks between the final 2 teams of E2 and the final 2 teams of E3. And at the same time, E4 Red and Purple were in an alliance together for a time (against Gray and Blue for the Raft Pull mission at least, and Red even said that they would be sending Blue and Orange if they won the temple mission during the Drop Out episode).

--If I had a dollar for every time two teams picked the same element at Temple, I'd have three dollars.
----I've also heard that the editing team takes out the ties in making the episodes, so why would they keep those three in particular?

I think this speaks to the respect that the editors and producers had for E1 Red, E2 Purple, and E4 Green - giving them extra time when they didn't have to. In hindsight, giving E1 Red extra time (when they won all of 1 mission and really seemed to take a backseat to Sabrina in terms of strategy and importance to the season) seems strange - but in addition to the novelty of that being the first ever final 3 temple, I would chalk it up to a combination of the editors and producers not knowing how Endurance would be received by the public/how many seasons it would survive plus a desire to show that yes, ties do happen at temple (may as well show that early on rather than get a bunch of questions about it after E1 was complete).